[mychael_black]

This has been on my mind for a while and I figured I'd throw the question out to y'all. (Now I just gotta figure out how to word it. LOL)

Okay...bear with me...

What do you guys think/feel about a biological woman cruising/hanging out in a gay bar, who is NOT a lesbian, but, like me, who's stuck with the wrong anatomy?

We can't exactly wear a T-shirt proclaiming: "I'm really a gay man" because, let's face it, who would honestly take us seriously?
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[WillYUM]

you mean like a woman who wishes she was a gay man? cause thats how my ex is, she just feels more comfortable around gay men instead of hetero guys and other women. i dont see anything wrong with it, i just dont think they're recognized as a group.
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[mychael_black]

Well...yes and no. This goes beyond 'wishing', though. I'm talking about transmen (female-to-male transgendered people); omnigendered people who, like me, self-identify as men; etc.

As a group, at least within the GLBT community, we aren't recognized very much, though I suppose that depends on where you are. We (trans/omni folks) tend to feel like the red-headed stepchildren--not quite fitting in anywhere, no matter where we WANT to fit in.
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[TuDestino]

Ok don't laugh but...I was watching an episode of the Tyra Banks show that talked about that very thing. They had on two women who said they were gay men trapped in women's bodies. Apparently there's a whole movement dealing with just that. They love being around gay men and some have even had relationships with gay men, which totally confused me. So it's a very real thing.

For me I much prefer the company of a woman when it comes to friendship and if you came to a gay bar I would gladly welcome you with open arms. All my friends are women I very much take your situation very seriously and support you 100%!

[WillYUM]

thats how the mother of my kids is, she isnt transgender at all though, she is just thinks and acts more like a gay male then a female. her current boyfriend is bi and so far its been working out.

there must be a lot of different levels, like people in this situation that are more masculine, and then those who still look and act very womanly but just dont think that way. it is hard to put into words.

i think its challenging just to go to work everyday and have to hide my sexuality, i cant imagine feeling like your in the wrong body 24/7.
_________________
"I love it when people give up chocolate for lent...OHHH just like being nailed to a cross...hey God, get over here we gotta open up the Pearly Gates, this bitch is going like 40 days without a Kit Kat Bar!"

[mychael_black]

Wow. That's what I get for not watching TV much. Surprisingly enough, I've met many writers who are in my position, one of whom I met through here and with whom I...well...we've become rather close.

Thank you. Very much.

[mychael_black]

Personally, if I weren't already taken, I'd actively look for a relationship with a bisexual man, or a gay man who understands what I'm going through.

Yes, there are different levels, as I've discovered thanks to many writers I've met.

It is a bitch, lemme tell you. Hell, I go through my bouts of depression over it, but there's not much I can do, really.

[WillYUM]

who are you in a relationship with currently?
_________________
"I love it when people give up chocolate for lent...OHHH just like being nailed to a cross...hey God, get over here we gotta open up the Pearly Gates, this bitch is going like 40 days without a Kit Kat Bar!"

[mychael_black]

Well, that one's a story in and of itself...

"Rob" and I were handfasted (pagan ceremony) April 2001. About...a year and a half ago, "he" came out (once I did) about being transgendered (male-to-female). So...no matter what gender I'd identify as...I'm still queer. LOL

And there are underlying issues there (both due to gender issues, and not) that are making life...rough, right now.
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~ Novalis, German Lyric Poet, 1772 - 1801 ~
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[WillYUM]

wow so hes m/f and you're f/m.

thats must be insane.
_________________
"I love it when people give up chocolate for lent...OHHH just like being nailed to a cross...hey God, get over here we gotta open up the Pearly Gates, this bitch is going like 40 days without a Kit Kat Bar!"

[mychael_black]

Pretty much. LOL
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~ Novalis, German Lyric Poet, 1772 - 1801 ~
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[James Buchanan]

He is but we love him anyway. Being with a bi-sexual partner definately helps the whole issue.

Still, the more fem you are physically the less seriously people take you. It's a fact of life. I don't think we're taken seriously by most people. Straight people say you have penis envy, lesbians say you're deluding yourself and your realy lesbian, and gay guys call you "cute" and tell everyone you're a fag hag.

Most people just freak.
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[mychael_black]

Yep. You basically put it into a nutshell, babe.
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"There is but one temple in the universe and that is the body of man."
~ Novalis, German Lyric Poet, 1772 - 1801 ~
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[bardohio]

[AndrewMCO]

It would seem to me, from experience (and perhaps a little hope) that most gay men would openly embrace you, as is, not because of who you want to be or wish you were, but simply because you share common interests and nothing pleases a gay man more than someone who understands and shares his interests and passions.

There's a guy named Wendell Berry who wrote a book, about hiking, oddly enough, and he says...

"Always in the big woods when you leave familiar ground and step off alone into a new place there will be, along with the feelings of curiosity and excitement, a little nagging of dread. It is the ancient fear of the unknown and it is your first bond with the wilderness you are going into. What you are doing is exploring. You are undertaking the first experience, not of the place but of yourself in that place. It is an experience of our essential lonliness; for no one can discover the world for anyone else. It is only after we have discovered it for ourselves that it becomes a common ground and a common bond, and we cease to be alone."

So my take on it is that when you step off into it (a gay bar), you are in a place with common ground and common bond, and it simply works because of that.

Andrew
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Andrew

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